The Uncover YOU podcast

Ep 199: What It Really Takes to Trust in Relationships

• Eva Beronius

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Something shifts when you stop asking, “Who can I trust?” and start asking, “Can I trust something inside me that's always here – no matter what's going on around me?” 

In this episode, I'm bringing you into a recent workshop inside ERA (the Embodied Relationship Academy). I show how your protector parts create a world that feels fundamentally unsafe, and how to reconnect with the part of yourself that remains steady beneath fear, urgency, and doubt.

If you've ever wondered what it actually takes to trust, this conversation offers a very different, and more exciting, answer.

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Welcome And Trust Recap

SPEAKER_02

Hey, hello, my friends. Hey, Claudia, good to see you on an error call. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01

I eyeline the car.

SPEAKER_02

So for those of you who were at the workshop yesterday, or maybe you listened to that replay already. Have you been playing with it? Have you been playing with moving your attention to that sense of hey life inside of you? A place where you can anchor in with trust? Just curious. You know I'm not checking if you've done any homework. I'm just like seeing what's been coming up for you after that. Did that change anything for you? Did that remind you of something? Did that like clarify something? And for those who weren't there, the replay is up. A quick recap. When our protector parts has been in charge, it's often created a sense of mistrust against the world, against other people. I can't trust anyone else. It's up to me to keep me safe. It's up to me to make things happen. It's up to me to heal. I have to work hard for it to happen. I have to work hard in the relationship. And as we start dismantling that old house or the old structure of the protector parts, it's important to find a different home. Otherwise, the protectors are like, well, so where do I go? We need to keep doing what we're doing because there's no other way of staying safe. So having this other sense of trust, not so much in someone else, because like I said, we're all humans. You can trust that they will mess it up, okay? You can trust that they'll be reactive, you can trust that hurt pain will happen. You can trust that sickness might happen, you can trust that death will happen. It's like it's it's highly unsafe in that sense. So it's not about trusting others in that way. Like, I trust that you keep my heart safe, like, but can you trust a place within you that is underneath, that is beyond all of that? So that's what we explored in yesterday's session, and I did a meditation journey of like how to move your attention there, how to have the felt experience of it. Yeah, Lydia, love it. I have almost finished listening to it. It brought up so much, really triggered. Good. So that's also what I said in there. Um, this is for you to collect data. It's not so much so you should be able to do this now. Just knowing that that's here, and if you're noticing protector parts that are like, but, but, but, but, but good. That's exactly what you need to see because now they're showing themselves, and you know where you can use pillar three to turn towards. Yeah. So Lydia feels so free to bring to this call or any call, like, ooh, what's coming up inside, and if there's anything that you're like, what about this? What about that? Uh, here's a part that believes this. How can I work with that? So feel so free to bring it.

SPEAKER_05

Uh yeah, hi. Hi. Okay, now, yeah, go ahead, jump in. Oh, it really, well, actually, it's brought up a lot of emotion. And um, I realized that actually my parts don't want to be seen because it means I'm weak. And that's really strong. It's like, why would you show that part to someone? Because that just makes you weak. You just, yeah. Yeah. And then when it something will come up really clearly, and then as soon as it comes up, uh it'll stay with me for a little bit, and then I forget it. It just goes. And

The Fear Of Being Seen

SPEAKER_05

I think, oh my god, is that because I'm getting Alzheimer's, or is it because this part just really doesn't want to be seen? But it's was really powerfully. I mean, I'm excited about it too, because it's it's brought up a lot of energy. Right.

SPEAKER_02

The energy is moving, it's coming to the surface.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, but it's uh it was quite amazing because it's just really often I think I just do not see the parts, I can see it intellectually, but I can't and now you can't feel it, you could feel the fear of it, you could feel the oh no, no, no, we don't want to be seen. Yeah, yeah. To really just you know, let me just disappear. Let me disappear from here.

SPEAKER_02

Just stay being this person, yeah. Right. Keep keep the mat. And what you're hitting is a very common protection layer, right? This is the reason we don't want to feel what we're feeling, even and and and even less so show it to someone else, or admit to feeling this or wanting this or needing this, right? Because, like, no, it's unsafe to show that. It feels unsafe, it feels like I'm weak, it feels like I'm vulnerable, it feels like they have the upper hand somehow. And this is a really good thread, Lydia, for you to kind of follow in there. Yeah, I would if I if if you feel it is helpful, make a little mind map, piece of paper, just circle circle name of a part, doesn't want to be seen. And then you write little thoughts from this part. How does it feel about being seen? What is it afraid will happen if we're seen? Like, just like step into its world, because what you just said, and then it disappears. It's exactly it. It's it's not that you're forgetful or can't remember. This is what it exactly how it works. When we move our attention into a part like that, that is often like shadowed, or that is a protector part that kind of lives in our unconscious, it's connected to a survival response. So it will only get activated in certain situations, right? So then we see it so clearly, and it kind of takes over our whole system and our whole nervous system, and we feel it full body. But the moment the threat is gone, it's not needed and it disappears into the shadows, and that's why it feels so elusive, right? It feels like, where the hell? Wow, what what what was it? I don't even remember what was this about?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, well, that's another part because in my family, the women in my family all have all they're they're now dead, but they they all had Alzheimer's. So that is another part for me where I'm thinking, I'm a woman, and uh so this is obviously there's a part going, well, this could happen to me, you know. You're right. So when that happens, I think, oh god, you know what's going on here.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, remember, and this is me letting that part know that uh even though Alzheimer's might be a potential option in the future, this what you're describing is not a sign of it, it's a very common sign. Uh, it's a common pattern that happens for most everyone, right? This is how the psyche gets fragmented and it works this way, so it would be very clear and like overwhelming and taking over your whole world, and then it will like disappear. You're like, What I don't even remember what what what felt so dangerous, what felt so scary? I don't know anymore. Yeah, so that is why like we're slowly making this bridge between your unconscious and your conscious, and it's like a muscle building on its own. So that's why I say, like, get it on a piece of paper when you have it, collect the data when you're feeling it reacting, when you're activated, collect the data, write it down because then yeah, sorry. No, because now you can go in right and sit down later in the week, and you're like, let's do a little pillar three with this part, let's turn towards it.

SPEAKER_05

But I also have a real issue with journaling, so I think it's really interesting, and I've just been doing that, listening to your last whatever it was, deep divine workshop. Yeah, yeah. And I was journaling and I was thinking, like, God, why don't you do this? You know, like, but I don't because I'm actually afraid of doing it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I think truthfully, I'm I am actually scared of doing it because I don't think I think I'm shit at it. I think everyone else can do it and I can't.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Which is, you know, just another story from your protector part, right? And but I want to honor them because what you just said is gold. Uh it's oh, I'm actually afraid of doing it. There you have it. There's the understanding. It's not that you're bad at it or can't do it, or why am I procrastinating, why am I not doing the work? It's because a part is actually afraid of it. So it makes sense that it would avoid doing it. So this

Mind Mapping Instead Of Journaling

SPEAKER_02

again, another thread, right? Like, oh, tell me more about that. What are you afraid of? Thank you for protecting me from something by not journaling, right? Let me understand this. Like, what else? What are you afraid will happen if we journal? But that's also why I say mind mapping, because it doesn't require a lot of it's just like putting a circle on a piece of paper. Look, there it is. Okay, I have it, and it's outside of my brain, and it's on the piece of paper, so it doesn't need like a lot of like long hours of writing things. It's just like there you are, I have you on paper. I'm gonna keep adding to this map. Yeah, and then that becomes your like okay, there's one. Here's a part that's who I'm gonna do pillar three with next. Yeah, yeah, and go get to know it. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Good stuff coming up. Um Paula lifted a load off my shoulders and gave me a new perspective, much lighter, happier, accepting. Well, voila, right? Okay, it's like, huh. Whatever heaviness might be going on within my parts, whatever mistrust, whatever reactiveness, like uh, I have a different place to hold it from, to give it space from. It's almost like separate. It doesn't need to go, but I can also land into this.

SPEAKER_00

It was a release.

When Trust Feels Like Release

SPEAKER_00

I cried when I I had this thing. I don't even know what words um created this sense of oh shit, is that it? Like if it was so easy and I couldn't see it. And this idea that I created all this I don't know, construction um of pain and suffering that um I mean maybe I will fall into it again, right? I'm not thinking that it's done, but when it happens, maybe I can just say, oh, it happens again. And so that's not who I am. I am a happy fucking, you know, together person. Together is not the word. Um happy, happy person.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, because you could feel that were you when you put your attention there underneath the layers, you're like, this is what I am.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. In spite of circumstances that happens and that whatever it is, yeah. I'm in a very good place. I can like I get out and and I want to experience, I want to, how can I say, um experiment with this.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Fun. Yeah. It's like a new new eyes.

SPEAKER_02

It's an awakening moment, right? It's both an awakening to what am I really like inside, and it's an awakening to what you said. Oh, and here's the construct of pain and suffering that I've created. And it's just a construct, it's just a house of cards. And underneath here, uh, it's almost like, oh, and yes, like you said, neural pathways that we practice, they'll come back in and they'll pull your attention and we'll get in there. But now we've once made the movement, which means we can make the movement again. And like you said, it doesn't mean that it needs to go away. It just means, oh, I can zoom into this dream of pain and suffering, insecurity, feeling small, whatever it is, and I can zoom out and feel something surrounding all of that. Well, have fun exploring it. Love it. Let's see, Angelica, after the Zoom call, I felt calm, moved slower, and noticed that I had no need to fix my relationship. Ooh. So that thing that felt so important and urgent and like painful, and like, oh my god, I have a problem, I have a big fucking problem. And it's causing me a lot of pain. And then when you had moved into this place, it was like it can be there. It doesn't need to change. Yeah. Beautiful. I'm just you know, I say this all the time, but it's not about doing the pull up and stay there, it's having the experience. Oh, I could do the pull-up, I could do one pull up. Meaning, I could move my attention there and have that experience. It means it undeniably exists within me. It can't be undone. And it means I can move my attention there again. And this is what I mean with like, oh, how good can it get? We start to get curious and excited about, like, oh, can I grow my capacity to have that experience? Can I practice that and strengthen that neural pathway? Because I've been so used to moving my attention into the pain, the suffering, the need to fix this, the urgency, the survival. And now I can use my attention to cultivate a different experience.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then it becomes very real that oh what dream am I dreaming? Right? What dream have I stepped inside? What part am I identified with? Good stuff. Yeah, mind map helps my helps me unidentify visually. Alison, I really like the idea of mind map. It's hard to keep track of all my children's parts. Yeah, don't ask your mind or don't put the the pressure on the mind to do that. It won't. Okay, it can't track it. And there's something very powerful with putting it outside of your mind. It's actually like a spell to make it to become aware. Now it doesn't just live in your unconscious and you're in in the shadow, in like an exile little uh part of your psyche. It's like, ah ooh,

Stalking Patterns Without Fixing

SPEAKER_02

this piece, let it let me put it here on the piece of paper so that I can see it, so that I can be the observer of it. Might sound simple, but it's it is, but it's very powerful. So just like, oh, I'm doing a week where I'm collecting data on this pattern of feeling like it's scary to be seen. Take a week, take a month, collect the data. Oh, here oh now it happened. There it is.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, it was super calm for four days, and ah, in this situation, here it is.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, ah, good. I got data. Add it, add it to your mind map. So play the long game. It's not that, oh my god, so now I need to go fix this. In the Toltec tradition, we call this stalking. You're stalking your prey, meaning you're changing the relationship from it dreaming you, it ruling you, it running you, and you're like, let me stalk you, let me look at what you're doing. So it's like, it's not the urgency, right? Of like, okay, now I need to fix this, and why am I reacting this way? You sense it's more of a like, you know, I I feel you running there. Good. Keep doing that so I can get to know you. We're just like sneaking around in the bushes, and like what are you doing now? What are you thinking now? What are you feeling? How are you reacting in this situation? Like, good, I'm learning about you. Yeah. Fun stuff. Christine's parts are processing from yesterday. They feel exhausted. Yeah. Are they exhausted in the sense of like effort, confusion, like what the hell is this? Or are the exhausted tired because they might be ready to let go? So is there an opportunity to feel like the exhaustion, the tiredness underneath everything that they've been doing? Or are they like, what is all this? Check in. I mean, since we're collecting data, since we're stalking. Yeah, Stephanie, you got a good one waiting for you. Claudia, how do you distinguish in mapping parts when there are so many? You focus on one pattern, on one wound, on one situation. Okay. And if you're finding 10 different parts in there, yeah, fine. Just one by one, put them on the piece of paper. But you're like this feeling of not being safe when my partner does this, when other people do this. Yeah. Feel free, Claudia, just thank you.

SPEAKER_04

It seems to me that even the link between uh parts and a specific situation sometimes is um difficult for me to see. Because then I um well, let's put it in another way. It's sometimes I feel that the situations are not the same, and the parts not the same, um, even though they may um um have the same theme, and the parts are not the same either. And then I'm going in my head and think, oh my god, all these massive fields of you know, and I know that's not the the the way I want to go, but it seems it seems so difficult for me to to make a global map of oh well, this is a difficult area for me, this is a difficult area, and these kinds of parts are playing a role in it. Yeah, I don't know why that's so difficult for me.

SPEAKER_02

I wouldn't try to make it into a project of like I should be able to do this, and I should be able to make a complete map of all my parts and all the situations that feel scary. Because it's not the map itself that is the goal, right? It's not like, oh, you've been a good student, great, now we know that you know, so it's yeah, it's just a tool, right? So if we don't like the tool, we can throw it out, but we can look at what is it trying to do, right? It's trying to create awareness and connection. So if we keep playing with that tool for a moment, I would take any situation where like I'm triggered, I'm activated, this feels unsafe. I go into protection mechanism, survival state, wound I can distinguish that, yeah. Right, and you're just like, okay, let me play with this one, yeah. Yeah, when I step into a room now here exactly, yeah, and like this one, what happened?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's easier, right? This particular one, yes, not mapping the whole thing into a world map, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Because now you're asking your whole your conscious thinking to to draw a map of uncharted territory, meaning you're unconscious, and it will be like, we don't know what's in there, and that's the whole point. It doesn't. So what we're doing is we're following the thread that if this is your unconscious that pops up, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

The surfaces, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02

It's like it pops up in your day-to-day. When I stepped into the coffee shop, and the the person behind the cashier told me this, huh? Yeah, and yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, it's easier. Thank you, Eva.

SPEAKER_02

Right, yeah, because this is the thread then that we can follow because it's usually time traveling, right? So it it gives you the little thread to follow down, it pops up, and now you can follow it down into your unconscious.

SPEAKER_04

And and that's not difficult for me. It's only this well, well, it's you said it all, and I did either. I think it's it's easier for me now. Yeah, yay. It's just the the the here and now, what's happening now and that.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. So yeah, I feel so free to bring something like that. Like, here's my mind map, here's what I've done with this situation, because then I can show you the next steps, right? Yeah, like okay, now that you have this and this and this, how do you follow the thread in? Right? So we can make it very tangible. Good. Thank you. Thank you. Fun. Um yes, there's no like keeping up. Uh for anyone needing the reminder, everything we're doing in era, it's in support of you. So trust when you know it's the time for it. It's like, ah, and and some of you might be like, oh, I'm I'm deep into this chapter, or I'm integrating things right now. I need really need to rest. Like, good, you have time. So it's not about, oh my god, I should watch this. Just know that it's there when when you're ready for it. Yeah. Laura, I discovered that I can trust myself to fuck it up and repair if needed. Yes. And the parts that have been so afraid, what if I fuck it up? We cannot fuck it up. Yeah. Love it. Ah. So let's do a little practice. Just a couple of minutes, just to see that it doesn't have to be a long thing. If you were on the call yesterday or not, it doesn't matter. I just want to show you a different kind of technique to get there. It's something that I go into very extensively in beyond the mind. Okay, in the program, in the meditation program, where I'm like, these are the actual steps to experience consciousness inside of yourself. And I think it's in like module four or something,

Practice Zooming Attention In Out

SPEAKER_02

where we talk about the quality of your attention. So I'm just gonna like give you the fast hack for anyone who's playing with that sense of like, can I arrive underneath the layers of protection wounds, underneath the layers of that house of cards, and like return to that place? There's a thing that you do with your attention to get there. Okay, and it goes like this. Just like you can zoom in with your eyes, with your eyesight, on one specific point. You can play with it on the screen or in front of you. You can zoom in and really like hone in on it, and like, okay, maybe that's my nose or something else, right? You're like, that's the only thing that exists in this world, like very focused eyesight, attention on that specific point, and then with your eyesight, you can shift from there, and and over time you'll get better and better at transitioning, like floating, gliding between the states instead of on off. You can shift into day dream eyes. You get what I mean when I say that, when not focused on any particular point, and you can just like kind of take in the whole room. Maybe your eyes are pointed forward, but you're not looking at a specific point, you're just like daydreaming out into the distance, and with that, you're opening up your like your peripheral vision, and you're like taking in a bigger space. So moving between those a few times, notice the difference. Okay, I'm focusing on one point. Ah, I'm taking in the hole. I'm focusing back in, zooming back in on one point. Ah, I'm opening up to take in the hole. And maybe you start noticing that there's more of a strain and effort to focus on one point, and to shift to the daydreaming eyes, it's much more of a relaxation. You let go of the effort of focusing on one point, and you relax, you soften your field of vision. This is the mechanism, and now I'm gonna ask you to translate that into doing the same movement with your attention. You already did it with your attention, but you used your eyes, okay? But now if you close your eyes for a moment, and you notice that your attention is like similar to your vision. It's like a force that you can direct somewhere. So you could focus your attention on one single point. Maybe that's your left pinky toe. Maybe that's a specific thought. I'm not good enough. Something else. I'm late, I'm gonna be late. What will people think of me? Can you notice that this is what happens when you're in survival state? We like zoom in on one specific idea, experience, and the threat of it, the danger of it. And then use your breath. Take a deep breath in, and as you breathe out, start to transition the same way you shifted your eyes into daydreaming eyes. It's like you're shifting your attention to soften. I sometimes talk about it as you were like clenching a little tiny rock in your hand, in your fist, and now you're relaxing your hand so that that rock can just rest in the palm of your hand. And you do that with your attention. You're letting your attention fill up the space in between everything. It's not just a body, one body part, one thought, one part, one sensation, one emotion, one nervous system. It's like the space surrounding penetrating all of it. So do that transition a few times with your attention. You're strengthening the muscle. If this feels hard, it makes sense. You might not have been exercising your attention this way before. It doesn't mean it's impossible. Just means we need to train it. So, what does it feel to zoom in? Maybe you zoom in on one specific part of you, it's experience.

SPEAKER_01

I can't journal. I'm really bad at journaling. Oh, this is what it feels like inside of this world when we believe this thought, when we're really focusing on this thought, and then really use your breath here, relaxing your attention from that thought.

SPEAKER_02

The thought does not need to go away, you're just shifting the quality of your attention, softening it, kind of widening it. Or if you enjoy that analogy from yesterday, letting it sink through the layers of the ocean, arriving you in the vast vast depth of the ocean. And keep doing it a couple of more times. Make the move. Practice the movements. It's not that one is good or bad, better or worse. It's just you have the freedom to move between. I need both. I want to be able to play the full instrument of my being. Softened sense of your attention. Just sink a little deeper into it. Relax into it. And just play with the idea of this is where you can do pillar three from. Meaning this is a place where I can meet protector parts, wounded parts from. It's not about escaping my humanness. Escaping what's hard or painful. It's bringing this place to what's hurting. Yeah. And in your own time. Just bringing that experience back with you and maybe explore what it feels like to stay with that open attention. As you come back to the present space and time. What is it like to be in the world from here? So I just wanted to give you this piece. And if you want to go explore it, practice it more, I think you all have access to Beyond the Mind you should have when you're in era. And the module on the quality of your attention. But it really is as simple. Urgency is gone. Because you've shifted your attention. The dream didn't go away. Nothing needed to go away. This is at the heart of this work, right? When we're can you notice now? When we're trying to work on ourselves, what kind of attention are we putting on these parts? Notice the difference. It's that more focused attention, right? Like, what's wrong with you? Why are you reacting this way? Healing doesn't happen from there. It happens from this open sense of attention. It happens from that state where you arrive at when you unidentify from everything else that's there. But I'm giving you the short track to see, like, oh, I can shift my attention in this way. When I learned how to do this, in it came out of my experiences that I had in Teotihuacan, right? I was like, what the holy mother of God was that? I had an experience that was like beyond the mind, right? Outside of the mind, a sense of myself. Yeah, where the urgency is gone, where there's peace, where there's a sense of connection, like an awakening moment, right? I'm more than where I've had my attention, I'm more than my mind. And I became so curious about okay, that seemed that kind of happened spontaneously,

The Beyond The Mind Origin

SPEAKER_02

or when I was by The pyramids can I recreate it? Can I visit that place again? What is the mechanism behind it? So that's where I got really nerdy and started stalking the mechanism behind it. What happened? How can I recreate it? And that's how I created Beyond the Mind, like my meditation. It was my first course, it was my first online course that broke down like the process of experiencing yourself as consciousness or whatever you want to call it. But it's like, what's the mechanism? Like, how do you move your attention to have that experience? And then I was so like, oh my god, this is the answer to everything, right? Hair, every all the suffering goes away. It's the non-duality teaching, right? And I was so into this, like hundreds and hundreds, not thousands of hours of meditation and going to big meditation retreats and events, and just like going deeper and shifting the brainwave state. And then I received just like this strong message that hmm, it's not about keep going further and further out from your humanness, from your body. Now that you can access this state, can you turn it towards your humanness? It's not about using spirituality to escape our human self. It's about merging them. And that became at the heart of the work that I teach, right? So no, Lydia. Parts don't like it to be this simple. They're like, but we've been working hard all our life to solve this puzzle, to make an effort, to like struggle, and like, what? It should be very complicated, and huh? But it really is this simple. And it might be uh provoking almost to parts. They're like, no, can't be, can't be that simple, yeah. So I'm just kind of tying some different things together here. Okay, beyond the mind, where did that come from? And that quality of your attention you can shift it. What does that have to do with what we did yesterday in the workshop on trust? Like, how the hell does that belong together? Like, yeah, because there's any trust that you construct will be conditioned other than this, then trusting in this place underneath all the layers. And then this, the quality of your attention, that's how you access it. Ah, okay. And can you also see how that ties into what some of you have been practicing in era, some of you will get there. The dominant and the submissive attention. It's also a quality of your attention, right? So, what we did now with the open focus and shifting the quality of your attention, that is more of the dominant attention. So the dominant attention isn't what is your problem? I have my attention on you. It's more this. I'm bringing this sense of open focus, but I'm turning it towards your human submissive experience right now. Everything that you're feeling in your nervous system, everything that you're sensing, experiencing in your body, all the little humanness, the big humanness that you are right now, we're bringing God to it. And that's the beauty of the submissive and the dominant attention. Ah, I'm life itself. Ah, I'm life in this human form and how life moves through me. Ah, my ah, it hurts, it pa and this and this, and ah blah blah. And here's God with it all. That's the dance between the feminine and the masculine. When you really like strip it down to its universal essence, life and consciousness. Can they meet? Can they dance? Can not pull away from each other, not be in opposition of each

Stop Using Spirit To Escape

SPEAKER_02

other, not be in conflict with each other, can they dance? Because that's how things are created, how life is created. Life without awareness, without that witnessing, without that space containing it, it doesn't it doesn't exist, it's not witnessed, it's not seen, it's not contained, it needs to crash against something. And this is how now we're really getting into it, okay, because yesterday I was like, let's go to the core wound of humanity, okay? Not just you personally, but humanity in the sense of we're separated, I'm alone, do I belong? It's so scary and alone to be separated, and now we're really getting into it too of like how are wounds created because this life, this experience that I was having that felt so big, there was no one there to witness it, to reflect it back, to be with it. I couldn't do it yet because I was four and I was overwhelmed with my nervous system. It was like, ah, and I wasn't at that point putting my attention on God in the room, witnessing it all. Right? So I had this experience of oh, this is too much, this is overwhelming. My system doesn't know what to do with it, and no one was there with me in that dominant attention, in that open focus and showing me that, hey, it's seen, it's felt, it can be processed through. And that's what we're recreating. Because it doesn't matter that it didn't happen when you were four. Meaning, I mean, it mattered, but it doesn't make it unsolvable, it doesn't make it a scar forever broken, forever damaged. It just means we that needs that process needs to happen. We need to travel back there and have that happen. Simple as that. In the sense of that Lydia just said, of like, well, is it this simple? Yes, it's this simple. So when we go into like, but all my parts, right? And when it feels overwhelming and like, but how many are they and what's going on in there? Hmm, when it when we strip it down, this is what it is. And the more you practice, the less you need to do. You don't have to know what part is this, you don't have to know the beliefs that they're living by or when they were created. You can use these qualities of your attention and just go in there. Can I bring God consciousness to this felt experience in my body? Boom. But since we haven't practiced that, it's very hard to tell someone who's been conditioned, identified with their mind to just go do that, right? Because their mind will have a million questions about that, and they don't know how to move their attention that way. So that's why it seems more complicated in the beginning. And here are the pillars and the steps, and these are the parts, and these this is a wound, and this is protector. But the deeper you go into it, you can strip things away because it all comes down to this. Something like that. I it I don't know how how how I can describe how satisfying it is to be able to take you guys full circle moment where it's like, okay, stay with me. We're learning the pillars, stay with me, we're learning to feel, stay with me. We're just like, okay, I know it might not make sense yet. I know it feels like you're deep in the forest, and what the hell is going on, and where are we going? But then, like, here, can you see now? This is what we're doing. Audrey, for me, consciousness and awareness are very closely linked. I mean, ultimately, they're just words, it's semantic, so it's like what experience are they pointing to, and how do we define these words? But for me, consciousness and awareness are very close. I tend to use the words as awareness, is almost like I use it more, I know other people do it differently, but I use it more as a sense of awareness arising inside of you. You're bringing this sense of awareness inside of you onto parts of you, and I use consciousness as this almost broader sense of awareness that's like universal God. So awareness consciousness slash consciousness, masculine, life feminine but again words. I love that Tuva zoomed out, popped up in a wide, white area like a salt desert. This place has come to me in other meditations as well, a place of infinite room. I haven't been there in a while. It's nice to be able to get back there. Very special.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yes, Laura, zooming in, zooming out. Alice and some of my parts were protesting to move out of focus attention, but like a child throwing a tantrum, I was able to loosely and firmly move out, right? Like, yeah, you get to be scared. Like, you get to protest this. I know you don't want to go to bed. I know you rather want ice cream than your dinner, but we actually need to feed this human. So just sending that signal that, yeah, we're okay.

SPEAKER_03

We're okay, we can do this. You get to be scared, you can be scared and calong.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. For me, this is the place we came from, Claudia. Exactly. It's like it's something that happened before we even existed, before we came into this manifest side of consciousness. So for me, in Toltec language, it's the Tunal and Nagual. It's you moving into the nagual and the unmanifest side of consciousness. Like, uh, there it is, and I am that too. I am of that, it exists within me. I can move my attention there.

SPEAKER_04

Please, about that. I understand what you say now, but what I um meant when I wrote this is um and when there was uh a blow when you were not even born, and you couldn't um um uh how do you say that? You couldn't cope with that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And because I I feel that that the earlier and the harder the blow is the the more difficult it is to um to to to to re repair in a way or to be able to cope with it. It's it's very scary.

SPEAKER_02

I understand what you're saying, and I definitely had the same experience. Um, like, oh, this goes so deep, or this was so overwhelming, or so traumatic, that how could I ever? But from being through many chapters like that, and working with so many clients, how I've come to describe

Healing Prebirth And Soul Wounds

SPEAKER_02

it now is more in the lines of oh, the harder the blow, the greater the potential for love is not a problem that it was big or overwhelming or goes deep, because it just means that that's gonna equal the amount of love that you're gonna grow into, that you're gonna access by moving through it.

SPEAKER_04

And and the moment when when you are in the womb, yeah, and and and for example, I I it could be that my mother wanted an abortion or whatever, but I I can clearly go there and um feel the blows, yeah. Um you still um um uh think the same that you just said before, yes? Yes, okay. I will think about that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, explore it with your like with these new little pieces that we've explored here today, right? What if you bring that with you, that understanding and that awareness and that felt experience into it as you explore it? Yeah, I I I had um not so much like in the womb where I've I've visited with things that was more like my mother's dream, her nervous system when I was in the womb, but for me it even happened before entering the womb. I had a huge wound that felt like a big rupture, like a big yeah, of a rip in my soul, even before I enter the womb. Almost like a in the transition from the big sense of consciousness into the womb, there was like a wait, what's happening? I don't want to do this again. Why am I moving from this connected sense, like field of consciousness and just love into right into this exactly the same, yeah, into this isolated experience again? Yeah, almost a sense of I thought I was done.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's happening again. So there was like this strong divided will in that moment. It wasn't something was pulling and resisting it happening. Yeah, so I had this strong sense of not even like, oh, I want to die, I had this strong uh sense of I didn't even want to be here. What the fuck am I doing here?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I didn't want to go here, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, and that completely shifted, yeah. Okay when I yeah, when I had built capacity enough to meet with that place, and for a long time I felt victimized by it. I was like, but this is here and it's on a soul level, and how can I ever heal that? But I kept growing my capacity to go to those places, meaning accessing this sense of God within me, the sense of love within me, and bringing it to those places, and it's completely shifted. I don't feel that dream anymore.

SPEAKER_04

And are you saying also that it's not really a physical thing? Because when I think about I was that small, maybe I uh uh I don't know how many cells, but there is no nervous system at that point. There is, and that this is it not really, is it not maybe not that important?

SPEAKER_02

The physical side of the story is not at for me on this level, it was in the soul, it was not some, of course, it traveled into my nervous system because the dream was alive. So later throughout life, like my nervous system had an experience of it, but no, it happened on an energetic level, on a soul level, much more than something in the body. It wasn't my little animal that was afraid of something, it was my soul that was having an experience.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Think about that. Maybe in my case it's it's different, but it's very interesting. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you're welcome. And and and and yeah, all our cases will be slightly different, right? Of course, yeah. And but that's the beauty of this. It's like it doesn't have to be the same, but the principle is the same, what was missing, what how we can heal it, how we can integrate it, is the same.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, and I remember a kind of poisoning in the womb. Yeah, and it's also very physical, so you know, and that's why I said maybe it's different. Because I I I can't go there and feel it very physical, too. Like poisoning.

SPEAKER_02

And and I I look at it as ultimately everything is energy. So even if we talk about the physical, right? It's it's the manifestation, it's how it's seeped into from the nagual to the tonal, but ultimately it's nawal, ultimately it's energetic.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So when we and we can access that energy in different ways. We can access it through the body. We're like, okay, when I put my attention on that sensation, oh, it's there, and I can start feeling the energy releasing, but I don't have to go through the body. So even if there's not a even if it didn't start in the body, even if there's not a physical aspect of it, I can still access it, I can still connect with it energetically.

SPEAKER_04

That's very freeing. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it is. It is very free. It's like, yeah, it's opening up the whole thing. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Beautiful. Love it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. One million percent.

SPEAKER_02

What do you saw? Relate to wanting to move away of the human experience by becoming enlightened, and now understanding that part needs to be developed to hold my experience is an aha moment. Yeah.

unknown

Oof.

SPEAKER_02

I was trying to escape my suffering so much by well, first by hiding out in my mind and trying to be very logical or rational for most of my life and trying to approach things that way. And then when I had like the spiritual awakening, it was like, oh my god, this is the answer to everything. And I was probably very obnoxious. Okay. My spiritual ego was big, right? I had the answers to everything, and it was like non-duality, like, oh, that's just the pain body, that's just the suffering, that is just this and that. Like, oh, if you just move

Confusion As New Neural Pathways

SPEAKER_02

your attention this way to God and realize you're God, like then not none of that exists. But you know, I needed that chapter. That's like it was humbling, but it also grew my experience of something beyond my own suffering, and it gave me something that I then in the next chapter could turn towards my suffering when I got like smacked over the head, and I um with my spiritual ego and started to like, oh, okay, but we are here in this human experience. Why am I so fucking busy trying to get away from it when that is what I came from? And what I will return to when I die. Why am I resisting so much having this experience? Being in this nervous system, being in the suffering, being in the pain, being in the discomfort, being in the friction in relationship, having the conflict, feeling like I'm failing. Like, why am I resisting all of the human experience so much? And that was like a ding-a-ding-ding-a-ding. Like, would God do that? And and all my exploration told me that no, God wouldn't resist this experience. So I started seeing this lie that I had lived by, where I made God actually, in all my pursuit of non-duality, I'd actually made God very dual, very one-sided. It's only this. It's not this. And I have so much compassion when I see people. When I did be on the mine, I had a lot more of those people coming in, like, ah, there it is. I'm enlightened now, I've seen the truth. I'm like, yeah. And but but but we need to have these chapters. It's not that they're wrong, it's just that our cute little human mind, your ego mind keeps thinking, oh, now I've found the answer, right? Not that, oh, this is one step on the journey. Yeah, fascinating with the soul rip discussion, feeling something before even being born conceived. I feel something similar as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And a lot of the things that we can sit and experience in relationship or that we're trying to solve from like, oh, oh, what happened in my childhood? It can actually like track back to something like that on that level. But it doesn't mean that we're doing things in vain, we're just like getting there, we're moving through the layers, and you're growing your capacity, you're growing your skill by like, okay, can we meet with my five-year-old that felt this way? Can I meet with? Ah, that is growing your capacity to then bring it to that layer of like soul rip. This is how a kitchen moment on a Tuesday evening for me and a nervous system activation relates to God. Why they're not one or the other. They're both in the same. And that's why after the beyond the mind and consciousness and God and enlightenment face, I got so fascinated with relating, relating relationship. Ha, the mirror. That's where it comes up. That's where the activation happens, when the pain gets seen. You know, this big picture. I know we like also, like, can we make this tangible? What the hell do we mean about this? But I feel like it's helpful to do what we just did in the practice today. We're zooming out and we're seeing the big thing, and we're like widening the attention this much, looking at the big picture, and yes, then we're honing in on that piece of our mind map, and like, yeah, two stays at five. I usually react this way. Like, how can I follow the thread? Huh. Yeah. Yeah. And if anyone's like, what the hell does this have to do with my with my reactions in relationship? Bring that too, okay? Bring those questions and feel so free to be annoyed, frustrated, asking those questions. Yeah, and I think Tove is saying definitely it's fascinating, a little confusing, but so promising and hopeful. And I like confusing. I you'll hear me say it many times in ERA. Like, are you confused? Good. What is confusion? It's outside of your old comfort zone. Confuci is new neural pathways. It feels confusing because you're entering like new ground, uncharted territory. So confusing, like your ego mind will hate it. It'll be like, I don't get it. Am I stupid? What's that? It's too big. What does it have to do with me? But learning, like growing your capacity to hang out in confusion, a very good thing to practice in this work. And I don't mean you have to have a big project plan for doing that. It's just like when you're feeling confusion, can you regulate your nervous system? Can it feel safe to be confused? Can you zoom out and just like, ah, this is good. Confusion is good. Can you change your story around confusion? Confusion means growth. Confusion means adventure. Yeah, exactly. Like on the verge of wrapping my head around it, and like on the verge of falling off the face of the earth, in a sense, you know, the way we used to look at the world, like it's flat, and at some point we're gonna come up against the edge and we're gonna fall off it. And that's exactly how your ego mind has constructed things. It's like this is my little container of understanding of the world, and it's gonna feel like I'm falling off the edge of the that map. It will feel um unsettling. It's the moment when Nina is not here, but it's the moment when Nina turns to me in Teo in Spain and she says, Fuck you. Because your mind goes, What the what the hell is this? Something is existing beyond what I thought, and it feels unsettling. And you're you're so welcome to tell me, fuck you. That's when I know we're getting somewhere. If this all feels, I mean, I know I try to make it quite comforting and safe and clear, oh, clear roadmap. But can you see, hand on heart, being very honest here, that that's my trickster, taking your mind on board so that you'll feel safe going into places your ego mind hasn't been yet. And people tell me, like, oh, you're you're so loving. Like, yeah, because it's working. I'm actually way more trickstery and ruthless. The loving is what we've needed. It doesn't mean that it's a mask or put on, it just means that that love is also piercing and penetrating an old dream of lice. So love is quite ruthless. Love isn't just like this sense of ah comfort and like Stephanie. I feel like I just ate a massive plate of spaghetti and might need a week to digest it. If you digest it within a week, that's that's fast digestion. You might digest this for a month. Christine, yes, I love this conversation. It goes against everything I learned as a child, and it makes complete sense. Something in us can feel it, right? It's not a new belief system of like, oh, I need your mind to be on board with this. Like, no, do you and and and again, I've said it before, you don't need to believe anything. I'm saying it's not trying to get you on board with anything. I'm pointing to things that your mind knows, that your soul knows, and whatever you words you you choose to put on it, beautiful. Any any any questions on that? Crystal clear? Shearings, reflections?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Angelica's sharing is all an expression of love. Yeah. That that's what I keep finding too. I keep investigating, but that's what I keep finding again and again. I I I fact check it. It's like, does this still stand? Is this also coming from love? But anytime it seems like it's not, it's because of the perspective I'm in. And when I zoom out to the point of view of a vast kinky god, it's like, yeah, it's coming from love. So that's why I also said yesterday to to some of you of like, or all of you, it's like an experience of suffering isn't the wrong one to have. That suffering is doing something. Your soul is here, like having that experience. There's nothing wrong with that experience from the point of view of God. Often from the point of view of the ego mind, it's like this is the complete wrong thing to be experiencing because it means I haven't succeeded, I'm not doing this human thing right, everyone else is happy, I'm suffering, what's wrong with me?

Suffering As Love To Digest

SPEAKER_02

And this is like where existential kink and shadow pleasure comes into play, like from the point of view of God, can you actually find the enjoyment in feeling small in the pain? Because somehow God self, meaning you, that is at one layer, created this experience to have it. And yet we're rejecting it so much, which is also a funny, fun experience to have.

SPEAKER_01

I created this, I wanted to move through it, but I'm also rejecting it, and now I don't want to have it.

SPEAKER_02

I would direct your attention much more than anything else. I mean, two layers of this. I'm already working energetically on all of you. I'm already working energetically on this whole container, this whole community. By stepping in here, you're being exposed to an energetic transmission to a dream. It's working on you. So there is that side of it. But when it comes to like the self-mastery side of it, like how can I work with myself? How would I train you? How would I coach you? Put your attention there. Feel this. It's like I would use a lot less words, and I would just direct your attention and the quality of your attention onto whatever needs it. With some clients, I do one-on-one work with them or in the programs, like in the coaching training. I usually don't need to say more than 10 words during a coaching session. They can follow my attention. This is what I talk about in level two and three of the coaching training, too. When you start to clear your own mirror, and when your transmission of your own dream starts to get very strong, it can be felt, right? So when I coach someone, not many words are needed. They're like just my presence and my attention on something that I pick up on in them will be enough. Oh, yeah. Oh, and now this image is coming up. Now this is happening, now this is moving. Okay, it's energetic. Are we moving the energy? Is the energy processing through? Is it moving in the way that it wanted to move to begin with? I don't know if that answers the questions, but yeah. And we would all hang out a lot more often in Teotihuacan. We would just hang out in caves under pyramids and just like do energetic jumps and expand the sense of like uh the electromagnetic field of the heart, and just like ah, how we can move things, how we can manifest things, how we can create spells with our embodied embodiments. Yeah. Well, whiteo. Teotihuacan

Teotihuacan And Energetic Transmission

SPEAKER_02

was built and created by masters, mistresses with an intention. It's like any spell, you know, any witch or wizard can use a spell, but it takes um high-level wizard or witch to create a spell. There's a lot of personal power that goes into it. There's a lot of energy, a lot of intention. Not all witches and wizards can create spells, but once the spell is there, we can hook it and use it. Teodihuacan is created like a big spell. The masters and mistresses were on that. High level that they built it with intention, it has an energetic imprint and transmission. So when you move through it, the energies are working you, they're activating things inside of you. So each and every corner and part of Teotihuacan does something to you. An as a witch priestess moving through that place, knowing it, I can call on the spells that are hidden. I can activate them. So it for a tourist visiting it, they might feel, oh, oh, there's nice energies here. And then they're looking at the structures. But it's very different to go on a spiritual journey there and have someone who can activate the consciousness, the energy that is like dormant, hanging out there. Because, yeah, it takes a wizard of witch to activate the spell, to use the spell. And it just happened to be where I came home to my God self. And therefore formed a deep connection with it. Yeah. There are many places like that in the world. This happened to become my spiritual home. Yeah. Jessica sharing, feeling into my past, lovelessness and withholding, pushing love away, lack of care, and how pointless it is to try and change someone. And underneath, we all, pure innocence, I can connect to that regret and also compassion, for that's just where I was. Yeah. Confronting myself to be open and present now with the people in my life to trust my journey and growth.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's like God self needed to have that experience. Wasn't the wrong experience. Our heart can feel grief, sadness around it, right? Because, like, because there's so much more available, possible. There's something else that feels much more truthful. Good. The paradox of being alive. Both and all of that we can feel around it. And that's why, like all perspectives matter. It doesn't mean that they are all true, but they matter. A protector that feels like, oh, we can't ever do this. Like that matters. Tell me more. That makes sense. From your perspective, it makes sense. A wounded child, I believe they'll never be loved. Not true, but that experience matters. Tell me more. Life, and therefore you contain all of it. And some experiences, some aspects of life you were afraid of feeling, experiencing, having. So it got locked in, it got stopped, it got imprisoned, and it couldn't move through you. So it's sitting in there, undigested. Can you please digest me? Can you please just feel me? Can you please have this experience so we can move on? But the more you're running away from it, the more I need to scream louder. Simple as that. You are having an undigested meal of loneliness, of sadness, of hopelessness, whatever it is that's sitting in there. And you just need to digest it. Not get rid of it, not heal, so you'll never have to feel lonely again. No fully, fully fucking feel it. Did you go to Teotihuacan? You bet went to the no, but Mexico. And it took me three years to integrate. But when I did, I just feel I want to go back, right? Yes. Like, what the hell was that? What happened? And then uh I want to go again. Yeah. I was asking because I was learning energetic and shamanic work where I align with the client's energetic field and would see and work in their inner world, but they couldn't really follow what was going on. So I prefer a more conscious way. Yes. Yes. That's what I've seen too. There are different levels of. Yeah, depending on what the dream the client is dreaming, you have to meet them there. It's like, I'm so afraid of this. It's like, okay, tell me more, right? We're meeting them in the dream they're in, not trying to say, well, if someone coming in and like on Tuesdays in the kitchen, I'm having this reaction with my spouse, why is that? And why do they keep doing this thing that makes me hurt so much? I don't go. Well, God wanted that experience. Or let me move that energy from you for you. Like, you have to meet them where they're at on the journey. And I love the journey. Like, I wouldn't take it away from anyone. And I I feel that that's the most loving thing we can do, allowing people to have the journey in a way that feels the most fruitful for them. Not for me to come in and say, Well, you should know all about this God self, or everything is energy. They're like, Yeah, right. And I find it more fun to play in the world. I I found it limiting to also be that spiritual ego. They could only talk about consciousness. Like, what the the no fun. I can only hang out with people that

Meeting People Where They Are

SPEAKER_02

are conscious, I can only be in conscious communities, I can only like be with people that are healed. What the fuck is that? Yeah. Laura. Maybe Christine can help you and check. It's in within Mighty Networks. So it has a section within the community beyond the mind. And if you can access it, yeah. Let Christine know. And she can just unlock it for you. Anna, yeah. That's my sense. Maybe that's why God got bored as well and wanted to try humanist. Like, okay, vast, all like encompassing, powerful self. Cool. Done that. Know what that feels like. There's no room for anything else than me, than this. Ah, what if we created a different reality? Where we feel small, limited, like we're not succeeding at life. Maybe that will actually create, like maybe the friction creates a movement. Maybe that friction creates life. Maybe that friction creates growth, creates something, an evolution.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And as much as I talk about oh, the the compassion and the embracing of human experience, it is a very different experience to be human when you're aware that you're God. You're now aware that you are a dreamer. You're aware that you're an artist. Huh. So again, full circle. It wasn't fun at all for me to be human before I discovered God. But then it wasn't a lot of fun to be human, also, when I just tried to be God. And it became a lot of fun when I merged the two.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Good. We'll leave that there. And let this this perspective be what's holding us as we regulate our nervous system, right? As we follow the thread into something inside of us that's hurting. It's again that open focus, that consciousness, that awareness that can be with us as we go into the little details. As we go and visit the rooms inside of us that's hurting. It becomes fun to play in the tunnel when you're aware of the nawal. It becomes more of a dojo. Oh, I'm just god dreaming this all up. This is not like we're all gonna die anyway. So what could happen? And it will be over in a blink of an eye. So therefore, what do I want to go make of this? Is not that knife against your throat.

SPEAKER_01

I have to heal or else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Beautiful. Things to digest. Don't try to figure it out with your mind. Just let it land and more let it be food for your attention, for your heart, for your soul. Know that it's moving inside of you, know that it's rearranging things and changing things. It's not something you need to grasp with your thinking mind. There are tribe calls happening this week. There's a practice dojo. And I hope I will get to post it tonight. An extra call in the community, probably in the alchemy space of the Toltec work with this work. The big, the Nahual with the Tonal. How does it all go together?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Much love to your God selves and your human selves. And I'll see you soon.